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So I was asked to teach a lesson on musical breaks and dips at the U this week. I told them I was unqualified, but they still insisted, so I need to come up with something to teach them. I don't know the names of many moves so feel free to correct me / tell me I'm wrong. Most of these just come from trial and error over the last few years.
The following is a rough idea of a lesson plan. Let me know what's lacking.
A bit of style: Lindy breaks and dips
(start with warm up song that has a few obvious breaks)
Swing music frequently can be broken into 8 8 count phrases. Many songs will have some emphasis on the 4th and 8th phrase, which is an excellent time to do a larger move.
Many fun songs will have a pause on a long note, or a bit of silence which can be called a break in the music.
Dancing should be an expression of the music which means you probably shouldn't be moving during a break. You can emphasize a break with a spin, pose, lean, or dip which stops when the music does.
(Small demo of each on a song with breaks)
General recommendations for dips:
Respect your partner and be concerned for their comfort as well as safety. If asked not to use a move, don't! Likewise if you are uncomfortable, say so.
Watch out for other dancers, make sure you have enough time and space to complete the dip. Don't be afraid to stop any trick at a safe time rather than get hurt.
Don't rush a move. If you get off counts before you're done, it's okay, just step off the counts when you start again.
Be aware of your strength and your partners weight.
Be Safe!!
Leads: support dips with a solid base, spread feet. Sometimes put your thigh under your partner to support weight.
Follows: Bend forward slightly at waist, not back at lower back.
Small dips:
1 or 2 handed tension dip (simple and elegant!).
cross body dip from closed position. (put thigh under follow to support weight)
Medium dips:
Modified swing out to dip (like swing out, but lead brings left hand to neck level and doesn't let go. Need to lessen momentum to avoid jerkiness)
Large dips: Not appropriate for this class, but I'd like to hear names and descriptions.
What do I have wrong? What else should I include?
SpecialK:Swing music frequently can be broken into 8 8 count phrases. Many songs will have some emphasis on the 4th and 8th phrase, which is an excellent time to do a larger move.
I think your trying to say 8 bars make up one phrase, and 4 counts/beats make up one bar. As dancers, we like sections of 8 counts, which is two bars. That's in swing anyway.
For example, the first verse of "'T ain't what you do" with Chick Webb and Ella Fitzgerald is a 8-bar phrase:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
When I was a kid about half past three -> 8 counts = 2 bars
My ma said "Daughter, come here to me" -> 8 counts = 2 bars
Said things may come, and things may go -> 8 counts = 2 bars
But this is one thing you ought to know... -> 8 counts = 2 bars
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
8 bars = 32 beats = 4 8-counts
The chorus is the same way, but even more obvious:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Oh 't ain't what you do it's the way that you do it -> 8 counts = 2 bars
'T ain't what you do it's the way that you do it -> 8 counts = 2 bars
'T ain't what you do it's the way that you do it -> 8 counts = 2 bars
That's what gets results -> 8 counts = 2 bars
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Blues, on other hand, has 12-bars to one phrase. Take "Sent For You Yesterday" by Jimmy Rushing (or Joe Williams for the younger generation) & Count Basie as an example:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Don't the moon look lonesome shining through the trees, (16 counts = 4 bars)
Don't the moon look lonesome shining through the trees,
Don't your house look lonesome when your baby packs up to leave.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
6 8-counts = 12 bars
Same thing here:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Sent for you yesterday and here you come today,
Sent for you yesterday and here you come today,
You can't love me baby and treat me that away.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
One way to teach this is to show beginners how to combine 6-count moves and 8-counts moves. For example with a phrase in a swing song:
32 counts = one phrase
One way to do it is to do 4 8-count moves or patterns
4x8 = 32
But say you want to get creative or you have some sweet 6-count moves or patterns.
4x6 = 24
Uh oh we've got some time left, but it comes out to be perfect! Just like we planned it or some thing --
4x6 + 8 = 32 Aw yeah!
You might even try teaching them some 2-count or 4-count patterns to give them more flexibility and room for creativity if they're hungry enough or if they're learning fast enough. For example:
2x8 + 2x6 + 4 = 32
Blues has even more room for creativity with phrasing since you have 48 counts to play with.
****Breaks is another story usually. For example, on "Sent For You Yesterday" after the second phrase of Jimmy or Joe singing (right after the line "You can't love me baby and treat me that away"[Emoticon not found] is a SWEEEEEEeeet 4-bar (16-count) break. Right there I'm feeling music in my core and hopefully my follow feels it too. The next 12-bar phrase starts right after that 4-bar break. For more info on breaks try here (learn a bit about the roots of hip hop while you're at it) or Louis Armstrong songs broken down bar by bar etc... Swing music isn't as simple as this lesson tries to make it [Emoticon not found]
I'll let other people respond to the dipping lesson in the mean time.
This lesson is really good for the budding computer scientists and engineers that aspire to be a nerd by day dancer by night.
I think you should start by teaching them the basic as it is good to be on the same page as the people you will be teaching and you can never pratice the basic to much. I also think it would help the dancing up there if they relearned the basic.
t_roach:I think your trying to say 8 bars make up one phrase, and 4 counts/beats make up one bar. As dancers, we like sections of 8 counts, which is two bars. That's in swing anyway.
For example, the first verse of "'T ain't what you do" with Chick Webb and Ella Fitzgerald is a 8-bar phrase:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
When I was a kid about half past three -> 8 counts = 2 bars
My ma said "Daughter, come here to me" -> 8 counts = 2 bars
Said things may come, and things may go -> 8 counts = 2 bars
But this is one thing you ought to know... -> 8 counts = 2 bars
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
8 bars = 32 beats = 4 8-counts
I was trying to express some thing's HotC did in a lesson on Jam circles. I agree that a phrase tends to be 32 beats, and I will adjust that presentation, but frequently phrases are grouped in pairs for more complete thoughts with the second phrase receiving greater emphasis.
This should really be two lessons, but they wanted a lesson on dips, and I figure I'd give them a quick lesson primer on when they are appropriate.
As for gumby, I absolutely agree they need the basic, but they also need something to keep them interested enough to work on their basic. We all can be guilty of condescension with our years of dance experience, but you need to give them dessert (a few dips) as a reward for eating their vegetables.
SpecialK:As for gumby, I absolutely agree they need the basic, but they also need something to keep them interested enough to work on their basic. We all can be guilty of condescension with our years of dance experience, but you need to give them dessert (a few dips) as a reward for eating their vegetables.
I agree but you need milk (not sour milk) before meat. My point was once they understand the basic better and connection it will be much less [Emoticon not found] for you as a teacher. If you decide not to teach a basic I can see you teaching an excellent lesson with out great results because of lack of connection which IMO makes or breaks dips and stops and all the dessert a fat child would love.
Also many great workshops we have had here started out with the teacher saying this is the way I would like you to do the basic please do it this way for the lessons and then adapt it to your style when done. IMO you could help them with their basic without being condescending if you presented it in that way.
SpecialK:I think I'll take this moment to gripe about any jerk who does a steal before you've had one phrase on a steal jam. I try to give people both phrases, but sometimes that's not possible.
p.s. Feel free to quote us on rhythm and musical structure and start a new thread rather than derailing this one from the posted topic
Settle down, buddy. There's no rule that says I have to let you have more than a few counts with a follow during a steal jam. Call me crazy (call me irresponsible 0/` ), but I think it's all supposed to be for fun.
"Derailing"? [Emoticon not found] I was little nervous about investing time and thought in this thread. Did my post about phrasing and breaks not fit your needs? If we're going to teach breaks, I recommend putting it in the context of musicality, connection with the music and partner, and phrasing -- all milk and butter topics.
You're absolutely right, I said one thing and did another. I would love to hear what you have to say about rhythm and musical structure, but that was ancillary to this thread, and I would prefer it get classified directly rather than be lost.
While it would be great for the U swing dancers to get a semester long course from a more knowledgeable and experienced dancer like roach or hotc, I don't hear them volunteering to do it. I'm hardly ready to volunteer myself too long either.
I very much appreciate what you have to say, and all threads ultimately go off topic, so who am I to whine?
SpecialK:You're absolutely right, I said one thing and did another. I would love to hear what you have to say about rhythm and musical structure, but that was ancillary to this thread, and I would prefer it get classified directly rather than be lost.
Thanks for the clarification. [Emoticon not found] I haven't even started talking about rhythm yet. That would be a topic for another thread. Basic musical structure is hardly ancillary to a discussion about breaks. Breaks are a part of musical structure.
The lesson about phrasing and music structure described above would be an opportunity to let the fundamental concepts and techniques taught during a basic lesson on the swing out and in 6-count moves to sink in and really solidify within the context of lindy hop's home -- truly swingin music. So "'Taint what you do" and "Sent For You Yesterday" would be that context. If you cover the material fast enough you can finish with what I was trying to build up to and described here:
t_roach:****Breaks is another story usually. For example, on "Sent For You Yesterday" after the second phrase of Jimmy or Joe singing (right after the line "You can't love me baby and treat me that away"[Emoticon not found] is a SWEEEEEEeeet 4-bar (16-count) break. Right there I'm feeling music in my core and hopefully my follow feels it too. The next 12-bar phrase starts right after that 4-bar break. For more info on breaks try here (learn a bit about the roots of hip hop while you're at it) or Louis Armstrong songs broken down bar by bar etc... Swing music isn't as simple as this lesson tries to make it [Emoticon not found]
Btw, while I live in Provo, and I have something to contribute, I try to teach as much as possible because it's a blast for me. If you enjoy it, I hope you can do it a bunch in SLC while you're there. Every little bit helps to grow the scene.
It's interesting that hip hop seems too have an entirely different meaning than what I used for a swing break.
When I said break, I meant a Caesura or railroad tracks in sheet music where the music stops entirely for a short moment. Or at least gets drastically quieter or stops moving. The wikipedia article talked about the break as the most exciting part of the song, and mixing music to be really exciting.
Have you listened to the portion of Sent For You Yesterday I mentioned above yet? I am in no way disagreeing with you, I just want to suggest broadening your definition of 'break' a bit.
The part of the wikipedia article I'm referring to is this (don't let the rap and hip hop portions distract, though I think it's fun to understand how all popular music relates -- esp. American pop music):
A break may be described as when the song takes a "breather, drops down to some exciting percussion, and then comes storming back again" and compared to a fake ending. Most songs have a break at two-thirds to three-quarters of their length and the break is usually visible on a record as a dark ring. (Brewster and Broughton 2003, p.79)
According to Peter van der Merwe (1989, p.283) a break "occurs when the voice stops at the end of a phrase and is answered by a snatch of accompaniment," and originated from the bass runs of marches of the "Sousa school". In this case it would be a "break" from the vocal part.
According to David Toop (1991), "the word break or breaking is a music and dance term (as well as a proverb) that goes back a long way. Some tunes, like 'Buck Dancer's Lament' from early this century, featured a two-bar silence in every eight bars for the break--a quick showcase of improvised dance steps. Others used the same device for a solo instrumental break: one of the most fetishized fragments of recorded music is a famous four-bar break taken by Charlie Parker in Dizzy Gillespie's tune 'Night in Tunisia'."
However, in Hip Hop, "today the term break refers to any segment of music (usually four measures or less) that could be sampled and repeated [see #break beat below]....A break is any expanse of music that is thought of as a break by a producer." In the words of DJ Jazzy Jay (Leland and Stein 1987: 26, cited in Schloss 2004), "Maybe those records [whose breaks are sampled] were ahead of their time. Maybe they were made specifically for the rap era; these people didn't know what they were making at that time. They thought, 'Oh, we want to make a jazz record'". (Schloss 2004, p.36-37)
I don't have very much music. I intend to start collecting it, but I'm not sure where I could just listen to a random song.
go to FYE go to the one on university parkway just north of state st. provo/orem area. across from the best buy. it has great jazz section and a used section you can listen to both.
SpecialK:I don't have very much music. I intend to start collecting it, but I'm not sure where I could just listen to a random song.
Random? Did someone clog your series of tubes? [Emoticon not found]
Jimmy Rushing version:
http://www.rhapsody.com/countbasie/swingsation
Joe Williams version:
http://www.rhapsody.com/countbasie/thecountbasiestory
AMAZING live Jimmy Rushing recording -- Live at Newport Jazz Fest during the 50s:
http://www.rhapsody.com/countbasie/vervejazzmasters2
t_roach:SpecialK:I think I'll take this moment to gripe about any jerk who does a steal before you've had one phrase on a steal jam. I try to give people both phrases, but sometimes that's not possible.
Settle down, buddy. There's no rule that says I have to let you have more than a few counts with a follow during a steal jam. Call me crazy (call me irresponsible 0/` ), but I think it's all supposed to be for fun.
Just reread this and had a thought.
Watch this video of two guys and one girl doing really cool steals:
http://www.daxhock.com/images/slip_slop_dax&alice&tommy.mov
I believe Justin has a whole routine of these three doing really cool steals.
Anyway, if someone steals the follow you're dancing with before you've had enough, steal her back after he's had her for a few beats! And then he can steal back again! This would make the normal steal dance way more fun I think.
The whole point of a steal jam is to steal! I think we should steal more!
However, I do think that people need to be more kind with the way they steal. And also people need to LET other people steal. I've watched many a swing jam where the guys hold on to the follows and make it really hard for the follow to be stolen. I think it's fine to sort of make it hard by moving the girl out of the way, but not to do anything to make it physically uncomfortable for the follows.
Awesome clip. i'd love to get to dance with Alice. Mmmmmmm....
ElChuy:Awesome clip. i'd love to get to dance with Alice. Mmmmmmm....
Have you ever danced with her? She's the best social dancer ever, she makes everyone feel like a rock star.
Amen, Plop!
... Oh! That was meant as an amen to your statement about stealing.
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